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Here's Greb's credentials:

Beat middleweight champs Mickey Walker, Tiger Flowers(some give him 2 out of their 3, and this was when he was over the hill!), Mike O'Dowd, Eddie McGoorty, Al McCoy, Johnny Wilson, George Chip. Also uncrowned champ(and hall of famer)Mike Gibbons.

Beat top middleweight contenders(sometimes 5-6 times apiece): Jeff Smith, Joe Chip, Augie Ratner, Leo Houck, Bob Moha, Young Ahearn, Fay Keiser, Lou Bogash, Buck Crouse, Gus Christie, Soldier Bartfield, Ted Moore, Silent Martin, Homer Smith and Billy Shade(to name just a few).

Beat Light Heavy champs(again, some numerous times): Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky(like 9 times), Mike McTigue, Tommy Loughran, Maxie Rosenbloom, Jimmy Slattery and uncrowned champ Kid Norfolk. If I'm not mistaken all the above mentioned champs(plus Norfolk) are hall of famers. Greb also beat top LH contenders Chuck Wiggins(several times) and Jimmy Delaney.

Greb beat future heavyweight champ Gene Tunney. Despite what the judges sai

About a decade ago I wrote an article in a magazine pitting Pernell against the all-timers from 135 to 147. Although today I'd make a couple slight revisions to some of the results, I still feel that this is how they'd turn out:

Lightweight

vs Joe Gans- PW by dec

vs Benny Leonard- PW by tko

vs Tony Canzoneri- PW by dec

vs Ike Williams- PW by dec

vs Roberto Duran- Duran by ko

Jr. Welterweight

vs Barney Ross- PW by dec

vs Nicolino Locche- draw

vs Antonio Cervantes- PW by dec

vs Wilfred Benitez- PW by dec.

vs. Aaron Pryor- Pryor by dec

Welterweight

vs Mickey Walker- Walker by ko.

vs Henry Armstrong- Armstrong by dec

vs Ray Robinson- Robinson by ko.

vs Jose Napoles- PW by tko cuts

vs Ray Leonard- Leonard by dec.

Whitaker's career, in my opinion, showed that he was much easier to hit and less effective as he rose in weight. That wouldn't suit him well against strong welters like Walker and Robby. What's your take on how these dream bouts end up?

I found a Harry Wills interview in an old 1920s newspaper article. It gives an interesting perspective on some of Will's contemporaries and how they were viewed by those on the "inside". I'm posting excerpts. Just a little something I thought y'all might enjoy!

"I've met some hard punchers in my time, but the hardest ever landed on me were like slaps in the face from a woman compared to the bone-crushing wallops of Sam Langford. They seemed to go right through you. When he hit you in the body you'd kind of look around half expecting to see his glove sticking out of your back. When he hit you on the chin- well, when that happened you didn't think at all until they brought you back to life again.

Sam McVey was a good fighter, but not a good fellow like Joe Jeanette or Langford. He had a mean streak in him and liked to boast. He used a lot of tricks that were unfair. He also had a left hook that was the best I ever saw, speedy and accurate.

Jack Johnson was the meanest of the lot

A couple years ago The Ring had Joe(55 KOs) at no.1 and Sam(130 KOs) at no.2. I was wondering if they weren't swayed a bit in Louis' favor because we have more film of his spectacular KOs than we have of Sam(only 2 blurry films).

Looking at their records I personally think it's hard to go against Langford. He was only a natural middleweight who, with a of couple exceptions, pretty much knocked out every single great champ or contender from middleweight to light heavy that dared to cross swords with him. An aged Langford splattered Kid Norfolk(KO2) and Tiger Flowers(KO2), both hall of famers. He KOd the great champion Philadelphia Jack O'Brien(KO5) with a single punch. He KOd tough heavyweight contenders Fireman Jim Flynn(KO8, KO1) and Gunboat Smith(KO3) as well as 3 fighters considered among the greatest HW contenders to never win the title: Joe Jeanette(KO7), Sam McVea(KO13) and Harry Wills(KO14, KO19).

Mine:

1. Harry Greb- his record has more hall of famers than any, including Robinson. Plus Greb BEAT them numerous times each, unlike Ray, who split bouts with the better middleweights. Beat many Light heavy champs and Tunney too!

2. Carlos Monzon- quality of opp. and unbeaten streak win him 2nd spot.

3. Ray Robinson- better at welter. Had trouble with strong middleweights who pressured him(LaMotta, Fullmer, Basilio, etc.)

4. Marvin Hagler- People forget that some of his toughest opponents were fought BEFORE winning the title. Remember the Philly wars?

5. Stanley Ketchel- brutally cleaned out a tough division.

6. Charley Burley

7. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey- considered THE best p4p fighter of his day, hence the nickname. Never beaten in prime.

8. Kid McCoy- great middle who ko'd heavies.

9. Marcel Cerdan- amazing record. Beat the best in Europe and several good American fighters.

10. Bernard Hopkins/Mike Gibbons(tie)-Hopkins had a great run. Gibbons had the much tougher opponents

I have Jack Dempsey with 27. Tyson has 22. Any past heavyweight champs beat those numbers?

Sanchez is greatly loved on this site(understandably so), but before anyone let's their emotions cast their vote let's look at Armstrong, who fought longer at FW and scored more wins there than at welter:

Beat Petey Sarron for the title. Sarron ranked in top 20 feather champs by The Ring.

Destroyed Chalky Wright, a top 20 FW champ.

Beat Baby Arizmendi 3 times, a top 20 FW.

In 1937 he won 27 bouts, 26 by KO. Astounding. Named Fighter of the Year by The Ring. From early 1936 to early 1938 went 47-1, the 1 loss being a DQ(avenged twice by KO). He beat just about every top FW of his day.

The Ring posed this question: Try to name a FW great who would've beaten him at his best. Could Pep have held off a FW so strong he came within inches of beating Ceferino Garcia for the middleweight title? Could Sandy Saddler have stopped a guy who was stopped twice in 180 fights?

These are questions that should be considered before voting here.

My list:

1. Edwin Rosario

2. Roberto Duran- punch for punch the hardest hitter, but for one shot power I take Rosario.

3. Joe Gans- a killer(people forget)

4. Benny Leonard

5. Alexis Arguello

6. Ike Williams

7. Julio Cesar Chavez

8. Jose Luis Ramirez- underrated banger

9. Tony Canzoneri

10. Henry Armstrong(had a good wallop at this weight)

How does y'all's lists read?

I am an American boxing fan who loves the tradition of boxing in Argentina. My top 10:

1. Carlos Monzon

2. Pascual Perez

3. Nicolino Locche

4. Horacio Accavallo

5. Victor Galindez

6. Eduardo Lausse

7. Justo Suarez

8. Oscar Bonavena

9. Jose Maria Gatica

10. Luis Firpo

I chose Bonavena over Firpo because he was the more accomplished heavyweight. He gave both Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier their toughest fights. He fought 4 world champions- Ali, Frazier, Patterson, Ellis- and gave them all they could handle. He also beat more top contenders than Firpo, so he gets the nod.

What do our Argentinian boxing friends think? Who ranks in your top 10?

You knew it was coming! Anyway, in no order:

1. Thelonious Monk- he was so much more than just a pianist. Totally original.

2. Art Tatum- technically the best. Light years ahead of everyone in ability. In a headcutting contest would dash the opposition to bits.

3. Bud Powell- May be the most influential jazz pianist in history. Everyone tried to sound like him.

4. Bill Evans- See above comment

5. Oscar Peterson

6. Herbie Hancock

7. Keith Jarratt

8. McCoy Tyner

9. Earl Hines

10. James P Johnson

honorable mentions: Bobby Timmons, Chick Corea, Ahmad Jamal, Dave Bruebeck, Fats Waller, Willie The Lion Smith.

Who makes your top 10?

Same guidelines as the sax thread. My list:

Louis Armstrong

Dizzy Gillespie

Clifford Brown

Miles Davis

Lee Morgan

Freddie Hubbard

Fats Navarro

Roy Eldredge

Bix Beiderbecke

Woody Shaw

Name yours(cuz it's fun).

What would your list read like? My list(in no order):

Charlie Parker

John Coltrane

Coleman Hawkins

Lester Young

Sonny Rollins

Dexter Gordon

Ben Webster

Stanley Turrentine

Cannonball Adderley

Wayne Shorter

Think hard and have fun with answering this one.

For me it's Son House. I think his deepest stuff goes even further than Robert Johnson in terms of emotion and inner-torment. "My Black Mama" gives me chills. Otis Rush is a close second. "Double Trouble" and "My Love Will Never Die" both hit a level that only the greatest of bluesmen can reach. Why do you think Stevie Ray named his band after the former?

Some others: BB King, Robert Nighthawk, Lightnin' Hopkins

Jofre is known more as a bantamweight, but had a nice run as featherweight champ as well, beating among others Vicente Saldivar and Jose Legra.

Like Sanchez, Eder was a beautiful boxer with a powerful punch. Could Salvador outbox the fighter boxing experts have dubbed as being "flawless"?

Based on credentials- quality of opposition, etc. Which was the greater Bantamweight? Sometimes I think Jofre, but then I remember Zarate's amazing KO record. I think Ruben, but then I remember that he could be inconsistent in his training. Right now my list goes:

1. Jofre

2. Zarate

3. Olivares

What order do you place them and why?

My list, old school and new(in no order):

1. Kelly Slater

2. Tom Curren

3. Wayne Lynch

4. Larry Bertlemann

5. Terry Fitzgerald

6. Rolf Aurness

7. Shaun Tomson

8. Mark Richards

9. Mark Ochiluppo

10. Rob Machado

Who would make your list?

Here's my top old school Longboarders(in no order):

1. Butch Van Artsdalen(the original Mr. Pipeline)

2. Jock Sutherland

3. Phil Edwards

4. Paul Strauch

5. Joey Cabell

6. Mickey Dora

7. Barry Kanaiaupuni

8. Conrad Canha

9. Bobby Patterson

10. Nat Young

Honorable mention: Dewey Weber, Billy Hamilton(Laird's dad), David Nuuhiwa, Donald Takayama, Corky Carroll, Mike Hynson, Skip Frye.

Who would make your list?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3LEKHMUCh8k

Check out this Nicolino Locche clip from youtube. He's fighting fellow great Antonio Cervantes. It's easy to see why he's ranked as one of the greatest defensive fighters ever.

This almost happened at 140 but Duran decided to chase bigger game. "Kid Pambele" is severely underrated by historians. He had 16 jr. Welter title defenses against top flight opposition. He was rangy, had great power and solid skills. He was a master at countering and ripping onrushing opponents to bits. His loss to Pryor happened when he was way past his prime(in his prime he may have beaten Aaron) and he lost a split decision to Benitez only because Wilfred was a fellow counterpuncher who gave him little to work with.

Duran would have had his hands full here.

Put on your thinking caps for this one. You may even have to boxrec it. Duran fought tough fighters like Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Vilomar Fernandez, Ray Lampkin(very underrated boxer!) and Edwin Viruet. Leonard fought the great southpaw Lew Tendler, Richie Mitchell, Ever Hammer, Johnny Dundee, Freddie Welsh and many more.

It appears to be Leonard, but I have a hard time rating anyone over Roberto at lightweight. What do you folks think, all favoritism aside?